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Helping you decode the science so you can transform your health.

Why the War on Meat??? Find out here from Dr. Gary & Belinda Fettke Podcast #16

Ever wondered why absurd anti-meat articles keep  popping up on the world’s media?  Or why EAT-Lancet has sprung from the ashes of low-fat, to promote the guzzling of grains and vegetable oils in preference to real food?

Well look no further – the answers are in 100 years of the historical record – now revealed here!

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Ivor:                                       00:00                     We’re here at low carb universe and me Orca. And as you can see, the beautiful backdrop behind us, but we’re still working hard. Don’t worry about that. And I meeting with this morning with a doctor, Gardy Fatca. I’m Belinda Fatca who have a very interesting story to tell. So delays to Meta game. Gary, I’ll have a Linda, thank you for having us. Oh my pleasure. Absolutely. And you have a fascinating story. We’ll kind of two stories. First your persecution on exoneration and then you get home to the fascinating kind of background of where all the dietary guidelines guidelines came from and why ultimately you got into trouble. So maybe, yeah, maybe Gary if you start with that. Well,

Dr. Gary Fettke:                00:40                     a lot of people already know. My story is very similar to Tim Noakes. Uh, going back several years I started challenging hospital food and particularly the amount of sugar that was given to my patients. And I, I look, I’m an orthopedic surgeon in Tasmania for many years I’ve been looking after the complications of diabetes and particularly foot ulceration. So I’ve been shopping toes off, chopping legs off for for a couple of decades. And ultimately you get sick and tired of it. So I looked at prevention and quite clearly sugar became the number one problem. So I started questioning the amount of sugar my patients who are getting in hospital. And to this day, if you’ve got diabetes and hospital, it’s still recommended that you get to three desserts per day. So I said, look, this is crazy. This is ridiculous. And I started questioning that in the process of questioning the sugar in the hospital, in the hospital, food and junk food in the hospital.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                01:33                     I started questioning the quality of hospital food and we all know hospital food is lousy and can be improved. So that incurred the wrath of the Dietitians in the hospital and uh, over a period of time, ultimately I ended up getting reported to the medical board for being dangerous for recommending anti sugar and low carb, um, and the medical. And then I subsequently got reported again by another Dietitian for inappropriately climbing to reverse reverse someone’s diabetes, which I’m guilty of it. Okay. We did reverse his diabetes and only came off five medications, lost 20 kilos and all of that. So, and then there was a third notification to the medical board, which ultimately got dismissed. But the first two were taken very seriously and over a couple of years, two and a half years, I was investigated. And a decision was made against me to say that I’m not allowed to advise my patients as an orthopedic surgeon to reduce their sugar intake even, even if it was shown to be best practice.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                02:35                     And that was a decision that was made lifelong and non appealable. Uh, so obviously, um, you know, once you see the results of low carb for your patients, you can unseat them. So I’ve never stopped talking about it. And if, and, and with the support of Belinda with her research and with the support of social media and the community, we’ve kept on challenging that and it’s involved to Senate inquiries at a national level. It’s involved the national ombudsman and after two more years of appealing, it might not appealable decision. It’s crazy. We can go to the supreme court, like they couldn’t use the judicial system to appeal it, but we could go to the national health ombudsman to see if there’s a problem with the process. That was all she could rule on and she couldn’t, she couldn’t say. So we showed that there were problems in the process, which clearly there were, and Belinda will allude to those and ultimately was sent to an independent medical board. And I looked at it for six weeks and I tossed it all out and said, this is ridiculous. Not alleged side that I wasn’t guilty of anything. They’ve actually apologized. Now that’s uh, that’s, uh, almost unheard of that they actually get an apology from the medical board. But ultimately we lost five years of being dragged through the system. And in that timeframe, my lecturing, the students was taken away. My research was curtailed and we’ve been stuck in that limbo. But in the same timeframe, we’ve also been, you know, going forward to the public.

Ivor:                                       04:13                     Yeah, well, it’s an incredible job to have gone through all that. Both of you actually, obviously it’s your shared, the experience, so to speak. It was all particularly malicious because I noted at the time, which was incredible. They said that even if the science advanced and you were proven to be correct, you would still remain banned for life from speaking. That’s a bizarre,

Dr. Gary Fettke:                04:35                     it was completely bizarre. I don’t know, obviously I questioned that and that’s one of the things which the national ombudsman was actually to hang on cause she said even she said, hang on this, this is a, how can you make, how can you, because so many things I say that science evolves by being challenged, not by being followed. And you know, that’s not the bottom of my emails. I mean that’s my, my mantra. So we have to keep evolving and our knowledge and there are things we do today which are going to be shown to be wrong in the, in the future as I had been the past. And so, uh, it was, it was a dumb ruling and you know, and thank goodness, common sense, spiteful and it was their undoing. Really.

Ivor:                                       05:22                     Yeah. It’s like, it was amazing to me and I, and I’ve seen a lot of corruption in this whole sphere, obviously like yourselves, but, but that one struck me as bizarre. The thought crossed my mind as well. That’s kind of implicating them, uh, in the sense. So it did turn out to be and how we got here then as the older parents of the story. So you’re exonerated and it’s a huge shot in the arm for people all over the world trying to promote healthier food like noax exoneration, yours and adult [inaudible].

Dr. Gary Fettke:                05:53                     It’s literally mine was the last case to be closed. And so therefore I know that it’s pretty well open. The flood gates, I mean I’ve been contacted by hundreds of doctors who have said, actually, we feel safe now to go, go ahead with this and talk about it. And so therefore it has opened the door and it now can become best practice in diabetes management with can become,

Belinda Fettke:                 06:16                     he says it can become, but you look on our dietary guidelines and you look at the Dietitians Association of Australia, which is our peak nutrition body. Yeah. And they still calling low carb a fad. So while the medical board has said yes, I think you can go forward with this, I can’t see a problem. The guidelines still a rule books that are not going to allow it to move forward. So,

Dr. Gary Fettke:                06:38                     and that is a great segue into how did we get here with these absurd guidelines. They quite frankly conflict with the science at this point. There’s no question. Well let’s, let’s take a snapshot of time now, which is if we look at, we’ve got an obesity epidemic, we’ve got an a health crisis on the planet right now. You can see that walking down the street and so we’ve hadn’t placed dietary guidelines for a long period of time. And one of the arguments is that we don’t follow the dietary guidelines. Well we know we do. If you look at the last 40 50 years of data out of the u s out of Australia, out of the UK, we have in fact increased their cereal in grains. We’ve decreased our meat and particularly a red meat consumption. We’ve done that. So the current dietary guidelines are serial based, grain based, anti meat and dairy and rapidly becoming Vegan.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                07:33                     So let’s, that’s the food pyramid. That’s really what’s being promoted and, and guess what? It hasn’t worked. So therefore we’ve looked to say, look, and obviously low carb healthy fat living is not the food pyramid. So if we accept the fact that the dietary guidelines now have been a complete and utter failure and have since the McGovern report and the introduction of the Diet, the American dietary goals, then we’ve gone back to see how come we’ve gotten to this situation because Belinda said, we’re talking, you know, we’re all going blue in the face talking about this and blend has gone. Well, hang on guys. Why? Why are we being obstructed? Why have I been obstructed? It’s got to be in those dietary guidelines. But more importantly, what’s influencing them? Turns out that that’s, that’s the segue in whatever we’re doing at the moment isn’t working. I’m challenging that. What am I challenging the guidelines or am I challenging the vested interests? And as it turned out, it’s the vested interest that had been blocking myself and others in this whole process.

Belinda Fettke:                 08:36                     And I think that, I guessed that it could well be the sugar industry in Australia. We have a very large sugar and wheat industry. So we sort of thought, okay, they’re really unhappy about that. So I thought it was a vested interests and, but when I started looking deeper, it was really fascinating. Everyone sort of gotten stuck in his 1977 the change to the low fat guidelines. But I just kept going back and it was fascinating all the way back to, um, what I’ve, what I’ve come to understand is it’s the evolution of the, so the evolution of our plant based dietary guidelines have come from the two arms of the temperance movement, which sounds really bizarre going all the back to the 18 hundreds and in prefacing this conversation, I think it’s really important to say that I’m not anti religion in any way.

Belinda Fettke:                 09:25                     Um, going down and finding some very strong religious influences on our dietary guidelines was just something I never expected to find. Um, so I’m not anti religion and I’m not anti vegetarian or Vegan. Even. I think people have the right to a choice in whether that’s cultural, ethical, or religious ideology. They have that ability to have that choice in our current society, I would think, and certainly from me, but as I’ve gone through and looked at their influence, the influence of vested interest and religious ideology on our dietary guidelines, and particularly the evolution of the plant based, which is I believe a Vegan, um, doctor guidelines, they’ve taken away my choice and they’ve taken away your choice and they’ve taken away society’s choice to eat meat. And it’s bizarre. You think? I thought Gary was in trouble for talking about sugar and cereal, but it was actually, he was in trouble for advocating animal protein and animal fats.

Ivor:                                       10:26                     Right. And this story, and I’m broadly familiar with it, though the viewers may not be, it goes back literally to the 1800’s if you do proper detective work, which no one really house, it’s evil Linda, except Belinda. Can I just say though,

Belinda Fettke:                 10:41                     And Reece Southern. Um, there’s a young guy in, in America, um, Reece southern has done a lot of research into specifically the seventh day Adventist church dieticians on the dietary guidelines and stuff from about the 1950s a lot of my research I got from him, so I’m not the only person, but he hadn’t realized the medical influences. He was specifically Dietitians, but he gave me an amazing segue into, into going back, but I then went back even further because I found that the introduction of the, well, the formation of the American Dietetic Association was founded by a seventh day Adventist. So you’re going even further back, but he’d certainly found a lot of information from the 1950s

Ivor:                                       11:28                     all right, great. So if we go to the, the origins of the origin, the hundreds, yeah,

Belinda Fettke:                 11:35                     yeah.

Ivor:                                       11:35                     Where it really began, this influencing force that, that I guess grew over the century and became more and more organized and more and more modern and subtle in its actions. It started in the late 18 hundreds with the certain lady. I think

Belinda Fettke:                 11:51                     it actually started right the beginning of the 18 hundreds with a guy called Silvester Graham. And you may have heard of Graham crackers and Graham flour and all those, they will all to stop people being stimulated by caffeine and alcohol and cigarettes and meat. And they believed there was a scientific and political and religious, um, rationale for vegetarianism. So he was the health reformers of the early 18 hundreds where the start of this rationale, western vegetarianism, vegetarianism is completely different to eastern vest vegetarianism. That’s Gary will explain that.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                12:25                     Well used to be determined is based upon a cultural respect for where the animal sits within the whole food cycle. And it even at eastern vegetarianism they will eat some animal produce and then when the animal gets old aisle, you know, for a lot of religions they will actually eat the animal, but it’s done in a respectful way. And so eastern vegetarian is built on centuries of care for the soil environment like it and the whole picture. Whereas Western vegetarianism really only goes back to the early 18 hundreds and it’s purely nice people. Yeah. To, to, to quill last bit they’re lost and it seems strange, but that’s what it is. And then that’s evolved into one group, which was the founding founders of the Baptist Church. Um, and then struggling,

Belinda Fettke:                 13:16                     they brought those principles of, so it wasn’t just stimulants of again, um, caffeine and alcohol and cigarettes, but they believe one of the biggest stimulants in our life was meat and it actually became t church doctrine to not eat meat to Stuart bays or passions. And the most heinous sin of all was masturbation. So this is where serials came from. The cereal industry was burst from this belief that we that to try and find ways for people to have, um, uh, protein and different things in their body to, to get rid of meat.

Ivor:                                       13:56                     Right. Because miss was seen and I think the, the, the origins of the words, I mean, Karna meet carnal. There’s a lot of negative connotations in history and I guess they really jumped on that and saw it has a really big negative influence on is the society like alcohol or our tanks

Belinda Fettke:                 14:17                     mate was masturbation. That her very first, her entire book, her first book was all, it was a solemn appeal to mothers and how to stop your child masturbating on. The biggest thing was not to put meat on their table and I segwayed. It’s sort of differently in my talks. I really came back and, and talk about the timber to movement and, and worked out ways because John Harvey Kellogg is obviously someone we recognizes, a person involved with the cereal industry and he and his brother developed the flight to cereal, but it was so then I said, well yeah, why? Why was he so intent on developing peanut butters and that made analogs and all of these other things. He was at temperance health reformer and he was a devout seventh day Adventist. So you bring those things down and you think will the, we’ve got Kellogg’s corn flakes from an anti masturbation crusade. Good. Poor old John Harvey Kellogg. Yeah. He’s a brilliant individually in see greatness in the medical pathway, medical education reform. That’s she patients on food and exercise equipment. But there’s a 12 year old,

Dr. Gary Fettke:                15:24                     he was invited into the white family and he was type setting these doctrines. He was type setting, as a twelve year old, the real cause of masturbation…

Belinda Fettke:                 15:35                     And that the effect of masturbation was as bad as inwardly decaying ahead and also like her, her book was horrific. If you read all the things that masturbation could do to you. And he was 12 years old when he was type setting these books, and type set for the next, you know, he type set for years for them and wrote or he was actually editing and doing things. So there’s no wonder by the time he grew up to become a doctor, he had very strong ideas on how bad masturbation was.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                16:06                     Following on from that, we, we should state that the weird things are now, is it the latest church is the second biggest educator in the world after the Catholic Church and they are primary schools, secondary schools, universities, but they pretty well started the dietetics education of the world. They wrote the textbooks for the first 30 years, heavily involved in the textbooks, nursing and medicine. They still own 60 publishing houses and they’re pretty well…. And as I said to you recently that I’ve had 6.4 billion downloads of their podcasts in 2016…

Ivor:                                       16:42                     now I’m, I was struck by that figure because I mean, it puts Joe Rogan to shame, but 6.4 billion downloads just gives an idea of the influence that’s occurring. And I think the financials of this – this whole organization that are influencing in so many ways, their financials are quite stunning too – across the world aren’t they…

Dr. Gary Fettke:                17:06                     They own pretty well – they are so involved in the food industry horizontally and vertically. Uh, acknowledging the, only about eight weeks ago, the senior members of the Adventist Church published an article in journal called religion acknowledging virtually everything we’re talking about now. So this is not, they’re not hiding it then actually not upset by it. They’re actually proud of what they’ve been able to achieve. And so they are, they are the originators of nutrition science. They have been heavily involved in our nutritional guidelines since the beginning because the American Dietetics Association was formed in October, 1917 by Linda Cooper who wrote these textbooks. She worked with John Hart for John Harvey Kellogg. She was an Adventist and a vegetarian and a vegetarian at that time actually turns out you were Vegan. The term Vegan didn’t turn up until…

Belinda Fettke:                 18:00                     Vegan wasn’t coined until 1944. The Adventist church doctrine was based on the garden of Eden. They were young Earth creationists. And so the garden of Eden was um, fruits, nuts, vegetables and saves and so that was all. So there’s no history in hunter gatherer. There’s no place in their history of, there’s no evolution, there’s no place in history for meat. So they truly believe this is what we should be eating. And

Dr. Gary Fettke:                18:29                     so the eating of meat is almost an aberration. It’s humans going a bit crazy. Yes. And driving further craziness and self abuse. It’s ….I didn’t know any of the story obviously before you dug it all up and the other guy, whoever. But I was aware that in the McGovern commission there was a very influential young person who was a vegetarian. I was aware of that fact and I suspected that – because vegetarian or particularly Vegan people are extremely motivated ideologically, whereas the average person is not, I was always guessing they were disproportionately represented in guidelines, bodies and anywhere where they could influence, which is okay, I would do that if I was ideologically motivated. But I think it’s just so much more huge than we thought

Dr. Gary Fettke:                19:16                     They’ve been working their way up through the system for a hundred years.

Belinda Fettke:                 19:21                     And can I say when they, a lot of their ideas are amazing. Like it really is. It’s about rest and exercise and a whole lot … sunlight and community and the anti-alcohol, cigarettes and stimulants. But what’s really fascinating is how they’ve moved together. So as I say that, the two forms of the temperance movement, one was the health reformer ones which is the anti-meat group, but they’ve joined with the other temperance movement, which is anti-alcohol and has spawned the sugar industry. So not, it doesn’t start the sugar, but it formed these industries of Coca Cola and this ice cream Sundaes and chocolate and all those other things. So this sweet…and also then putting the sweet into the cereals, it allowed them to find a way to celebrate as family’s and big communities and whatever else – and not having alcohol. So the Soda Fountains were called the new American bar. It was an ally of temperance. So the food industry that was creating the sugar and the, and the food industry from the Seventh Day Adventists that we’re all aligned with the vegetarian substitutes of meat – just match so beautifully together – because the sugar gave shelf life to the vegetarian products. It doesn’t help meat. So yeah, this is where it’s all interconnected. And Harvard University was the start of, um, the nutrition foundation and the school of public health were all started by food industry. So five food industries gave money to this nutrition foundation, which was part of the Harvard School of Public Health. And they worked with the Adventist church to do the very first Adventist studies – because it suits both. They grow together and even though they’ve got very opposing ideas about things, the interconnection has just helped,

Dr. Gary Fettke:                21:18                     …and this has happened in all of human history. To be honest, it, it seems bizarre what you described, but to be, to me it’s actually makes it makes complete sense because in human history we’ve always had different sects and organizations who have common goals, you know who get together even though they might differ significantly on one or two things. So it kind of all just came together throughout the 20th century that they grew and grew and power and influence until labor kind of embedded in all of the structures that the financially, to come back to that the, the, the cereal industry 101 cereal companies were formed in Battle Creek, Michigan, which is the home of the Adventist church and over time we’ve effectively got Kellogg’s and all of their affiliates, but because they largely owned by originally by the advantages and I have advanced work for them, their tires, you can imagine 10% of the profits of the cereal industry is going back into the church in Australia. LNG white came to Australia and started a company called Sanitarium, which is Australia’s most trusted company.

Belinda Fettke:                 22:30                     She set up the entire church, but she also wanted to set up the steel industry as church owned. So that was different. Kellogg’s was a seventh day Adventist and he started his own business, but they actually came to Australia and set the feet into Skype as a church.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                22:43                     Yeah. And that Church owns the biggest cereal company in Australia and they don’t pay any tax, but they put it all back into educating the community. So that’s where the enormous resources come from to create the billions of podcasts and everything else. Because the profits are not being taken by corporate executive types and shareholders to the church. But they have this purpose, they believe clearly in what they’re doing. It’s all plowed straight back into medical evangelism with charity status. So it no tax,

Belinda Fettke:                 23:21                     there’s no tax on Sanitarium and they make 462 different products and they don’t pay any tax. But

Ivor:                                       23:26                     Sanitarium being the biggest cereal company in Australia. I mean that, I guess I’m just coming back – they are very large amounts of revenue, indeed – wow.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                23:38                     But then they brought (the Adventist church) by Harry Miller, brought uh, soil from Ida, fermented soy to the concept of soil to the Western world. So that modern soy product, which is that as an alternative to substitute. So we’ve got fake meat, fake dairy, we’ve got infant formulas which are made predominantly from Soy and developed the first infant soy formula. So if you think about the massive impact of soy in the food cycle and going all the way back to affecting our agricultural practice, now we’re plowing of soil to put in more soybean that is actually all from the one group. So that whole soy industry is paying ties back into the one church group. And that’s where the funding is. And all of this stuff is actually in their annual reports. I mean, it’s not, it’s not hidden – significant portions of it. And so you can actually read their annual reports. They’ve got all the figures. And it talks about the industries they actually own….

Ivor:                                       24:47                     And I think that is a very important point because along with the disclaimer, and I’ll also echo that one, that vegetarian is fine- I’ve many vegetarian friends. In fact, in our Irish medical group we’re setting up, um, we have a vegan psychiatrist, a doctor in our group. So it’s fine with not to try and influence the whole world and the way we’re discussing.

Belinda Fettke:                 25:11                     Yes. But the other is taking away choice. That’s, that’s the thing. They’re taking away a choice by developing these rule books that silence my husband

Ivor:                                       25:22                     exactly. The under obviously have I used the word corrupted, but it is corrupted soy refined grains and infant formulas and all the fake food that’s having an enormous negative effect on the world’s health, even though they had good intentions. So this is not like a conspiracy where it’s, it’s really on known like twin towers or anything like that where it’s really unknown what happens. All of this is on the record, so we put links to it. It’s all historical. Just reality. Yeah.

Belinda Fettke:                 25:54                     And where it’s going now is the concern

Dr. Gary Fettke:                25:58                     those two arms have come together. And uh, so when you hear the term exercise is medicine, which is a brand owned by Coca Cola and has come down that whole pathway. So whenever you hear the term exercise medicine, that’s a victim into food industries,

Belinda Fettke:                 26:19                     epistatic, Coca Cola, vice president in 1978, the international life science institute. So they have got over 400 companies that are food and pharmaceutical industries plus whatever else, Kellogg’s and Coca Cola nicely planted in there. And so this exercise is medicine is being led by, it’s driven by Coca Cola with the entire LLC in the, in the background. So you can imagine coca cola is coming this way.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                26:48                     And on the other side of it, the new term is called lifestyle medicine. So whenever you hear the term lifestyle medicine, that’s pretty well been set up started by the Adventist church. Virtually everyone at the senior level over the last several years is actually flowing from the advantage church

Belinda Fettke:                 27:05                     senior level in America, in Asia, in Australia, and the global movement in, in the, um, Europe. I don’t believe it’s as heavily influenced. So they’re just seeing the movement as an amazing thing and joining in. But it’s promoting because

Dr. Gary Fettke:                27:22                     lifestyle medicine, it’s about eating well, sleeping will, moving/exercise and community and bringing that together. But it is actually when you listen carefully, dissect their message. It’s about veganism and it is, in fact when you go back to Australia it was, it’s actually owned,

Belinda Fettke:                 27:43                     The Institute Of lifestyle Medicine is owned by Sanitarium. Sanitarium. Yes. Another circle we come back yet again. So they put these things into this processed food industry….

Dr. Gary Fettke:                27:57                     So we’ve got exercise medicine and lifestyle medicine coming together and actually developing the medical curriculum for the world. And as a result of that, we’re seeing, it’s already been introduced in few universities in the United States and Loma Linda…

Belinda Fettke:                 28:15                     …Harvard University and South Carolina Greenville, which Stephen Blair’s involved with, and he’s been funded by Coca Cola in the past with the global energy balance network group that’s now defunct. So

Ivor:                                       28:32                     these are “Seed universities” ideally expanding to to infiltrate, if you will, all of medical education.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                28:40                     And we’ve got lots of examples of where they’re spreading out into the South Pacific, into China, into my own Tasmanian, the university, very core curriculum, which was part of what it was. I didn’t realize I, I tried on a landmine in 2014 when that was actually being introduced as a test, the test run on the medical students. And I came through and said, actually, that’s all nonsense. This is actually, you know, inflammation is caused by sugar, carbs, and poly unsaturated oils,

Belinda Fettke:                 29:14                     …and to shut him down even more then they brought “exercise is medicine” as the trademark into our university. And they’re promoting that. Obviously everything is, you know, “diabetes is cured by exercise as medicine”. And I’m just going, oh my gosh. So, so finding out all this has been incredible.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                29:30                     It is absolutely incredible. And the thing is the union of corporate power and state power is actually the definition of fascism. I found that out recently, I never viewed it that way, but that’s the definition of fascism. Here interestingly, I’m not saying it’s fascism, but we have the allying of corporate power and ideological kind of religious interests together, which becomes extremely powerful because the huge revenues coming in can be redirected towards changing the message, changing the whole, the whole perception of everyone. So I’m guessing now that people should really be aware of this and begin to counter it and counter the fake-food culture that’s being generated.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                30:16                     I think we know that there’s a health issue on the planet obesity, diabetes out of control. And we have an answer which is healthy eating, eat fresh, local, seasonal food, which actually turns out by definition to be low-carb, healthy fat. So we have an answer. We have an antidote. So why isn’t it being promoted? Why isn’t it becoming first line management? Well now we know, we’ve always suspected it’s food industry have been involved but actually now know the mechanism of how that’s evolved and that the food guidelines is one, but the industry is another, and they both have actually supported each other. Not For 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 years. But for a hundred years and then they build on this history that goes back for previous 50 60 80 years to the early 1800’s, and I call that generational education. You believe what your teachers have taught to you and your teachers before then. So as a result, this is just become the norm.

Belinda Fettke:                 31:18                     And I can just tell you never upset a woman and pick on her husband. He goes smoothly because look what’s happening. All of those things become revealed. Yeah. If they’d never gone off to Gary and just if the medical board have just gone, this is a bit silly it let’s have a conversation. You know, we want you to get off social media, whatever else. I’ve never have looked, but they was so dogmatic and I just went, you know what? They’re not taking my husband down and I’m going to find out why. Excellent

Dr. Gary Fettke:                31:48                     Belinda. And you know, but that’s often the way of dogmatists, especially ideologically driven ones. And they will tend to react very strongly when they’re in any way threatened with Lego. Say lucky they did. And with norcs as well. Looky. They did that absurd accusation and now it has blown back on them and the,

Belinda Fettke:                 32:07                     that’s what Russ Green found out. He found this exercise as medicine. Like that’s influenced Tim Noakes international life science institute is that powerful one that seems to have affected Tim Noakes but now we’ve brought in the fact that it’s not just that it’s this as well and Tim was just like, oh my gosh, now I understand why the Vegan movement was so anti what I’m talking about. And yeah, I think it’s so we have layers here of marriages made in hell. It’s actually over hundreds of years creating a dysfunctional family. I did disease, but

Ivor:                                       32:40                     there is one thing though the ILS, I might just call out. I had a run in with people involved with the ILS cy and I wasn’t aware of them. I was involved in a debate and they found it afterwards about the Ilsi from Belinda. Belinda, actually the message that the time you tipped me off and I was amazed when I looked up Ilsi, it was a think tank, which has always suspect started in America, right around Washington or something, 78 you see a think tank starting, you know that’s cooperatives revenue kind of stuff going on. It’s just the way it is. But when you look at all their directors and the industry side cover every cocacola and Nestle Danone, I mean it’s just a who’s who, Kellogg’s old cereal guys and then you look at the other site directors from like education and medicine and all these professors, every country allied and I just looked and I said, whoa, that’s exactly what I do. If I had an interest to make what you are describing happen, of course you would. Key opinion leaders, bring them in, get them on board and talk about research and advancing health and it’s always eat, eat less. If you have a look at all of their programs and carbohydrates and the gospel truth or eat less, move more. It’s the classic CECO calories in, calories out deception that Coca Cola and all the food companies love.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                34:10                     They do listen to them now it’s exercise more, eat less.

Ivor:                                       34:16                     That’s what we’ve worked out. You know, it all z and the religion. This is what it thereafter eat. Sorry, move more and eat less meat. Now just to be clear that that is the certainly the intent. That’s not technically a phrase yet. No, no.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                34:34                     Do you look for it? So I mean they’re talking about meat tax Uzi now it was a um, uh, uh, taking dietetic education into China. They’re writing the textbooks for Dietitians or dietetics for China at the moment and medicine. So there’s things to listen out for it. Now that you know

Ivor:                                       34:55                     specifically say it, less meet -they call it “plant based”. But you know, euphemisms are everywhere.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                35:01                     When you hear the terms “plant based Diet.” When you hear the term “Vegan”, when you hear the term “exercise as medicine”, when you hear the term “lifestyle medicine” OR “ILSI” – just recognize that they have a history behind them, which is actually based on ideology, ideology, which is now intertwined with corporate vested interest. And it’s not their for our health, it might, it’s advertised as such. And they believe in it. We don’t always agree it’s a bit of marriage counseling – Ivor intervene quick! But they believe it’s for health. So in fairness they, but health and salvation and that’s the difference

Ivor:                                       35:43                     mixture. That’s always the problem. And, and in fairness, the disclaimer is very important, not against religion, not against these diets. However, the problem, the problem’s who religion historically for thousands of years, uh, often they’ve been great ideas with good intentions, but certain dogmas then are what have caused the issue over over centuries and millennia. And here we’re seeing, you know, a lot of what they’re doing is for the right reason. It’s good stuff on. Unfortunately it’s just carrying with as a Trojan horse of something that’s completely irrational and anti scientific and that’s being carried through.

Dr. Gary Fettke:                36:21                     I think that’s perfect. That’s it. I just got up off to the wrong start. So you know, occasionally you might drive up the highway on the wrong side and sooner or later you’ll work out that, hang on, we’ve gotten, we’re in trouble

Ivor:                                       36:36                     or less. You get the whole world to switch the sides, which you drive od, which it looks like what they’re trying to do

Dr. Gary Fettke:                36:43                     because I realized we’re in trouble, but I actually think, you know, there’s this head on collision that’s about to happen and uh, if you, if we understand history, I mean I, I looked at her aghast. I went, what? There’s barriers either as a and then before know, I know, but when you first read baby Gary first haired, the stuff he’s saying, hold on a minute. Are you sure he come home from work and I go, you ain’t funny, fun a fanned out today. I spoke out about this at the crossfit games last year. They killed conference in and I said to Belinda, I need to now recheck all this before I’m going to say it out loud. He’d been listening to me just believing me. And, and so I’ve got all the references. So all that talk was completely referenced. But before that we actually popped in and saw, I rang up Zoe [inaudible].

Dr. Gary Fettke:                37:29                     This is Zoe. I’m going to drag her in. I said, Zoe, can we come and have a chat to you? So we traveled from Australia to Wiles, uh, Zoe and Andy and Maraica sobers came up from Cape Town and we sat there in their house for five days and said, are we crazy? Can we just check it all with you? And so we had five laptops going all cross referencing and they actually agree, yeah, you’re actually right. We’re not making it up. And then the talk was given, it’s been acknowledged repeatedly since then by members of the Adventist church. We’ve got a lot of exit vendors to have come along and said, you’re absolutely right. They’d probably be my biggest supporters now. Like some of the people who had contacted me the most and talk to me and this, it just makes sense. I hadn’t realized. And, and then, and then in most recent times, this acknowledgement by the Adventist church that what we’re talking about is actually completely relevant. So as we all move forward, it’s just important to know if someone comes to your table that what hat they’re wearing. Yeah. And I think in going forward, ideology also needs to be discussed as a conflict of interest

Belinda Fettke:                 38:36                     in nutrition science because it’s, it’s having a huge influence.

Ivor:                                       38:40                     I actually love that point, Belinda to so many important points here. It’s dizzying. But that one is huge in itself because an ideological driver for, for a human being is much more powerful than simply some extra money. True classic conflict of interest. The coi is we see influencing Madison and there are studies on this can sometimes on the amount to a few thousand dollars a year and gifts to doctors I’m sure, but ideology is a much more powerful driver of a human than any more than it comes from the heart. And it’s part of your, your essential intent. We used to call it in management. Uh, but that’s a huge point. Conflict of interest should include if you have religious and ideological beliefs that, that that clearly would affect your, your, your bias towards certain,

Belinda Fettke:                 39:29                     this is where it is, you know, there’s a huge conflict of interest and it just needs to be acknowledged. And, uh, and I, in going forward, if we are creating, I mean, do we need guidelines at all but for sick people, if we’re going forward and creating guidelines, it needs, you know, we may need those people who’ve got incredible experience in a Vegan Diet to be helping write that part of the dietary guidelines, but acknowledging them their beliefs and then people who want to talk about low carb, we need to get those people in, not the people who have got the Vegan interests doing the low carb. You know, it’s, it’s about creating fairness I think.

Ivor:                                       40:06                     And transparency, transparency, transparency above all where everyone is as laid out in the table where they’re coming from. Yeah. Very good. Well, I think that’s going to begin the happening in the coming years. The race I’ve switch all of this gets resolved is the debate. I think, I know talking to a Dr Seinfeld about this a few times over the years, will it take around 10 years to largely get more clarity, transparency and good science or will it be faster with the growing low carb on movement is quite rapid growth. We might close will now, what do you think to reach a point where largely things are more transparent and the general public have more of a grasp on

Dr. Gary Fettke:                40:49                     hi, I’d like to think it’s going to happen tomorrow, but it’s going to take a lot longer. I think there are so many forces out there that we can’t change the world we’d like to, but we can as individuals make a decision about what we do this afternoon and tomorrow we can do that for our families and that all of the work we’re doing is to support those people in want to make a difference. And so yes, it, you know, it’d be nice to save the world, but we’re going to need to start with saving ourselves first of all. Um, and a lot of the resources for this and the two are billionaires put together just to let you know, and it’s on the, I support site so that we’re making it all public. It’s all, I created a website

Belinda Fettke:                 41:34                     really annoyed Afra no doubt. I created a website saying I support gay. And I’ve just started putting all these things up and it’s been really interesting. Like journalists have contacted me, the u s right to know has recently contacted me. They wanted to know about the cereal, um, documents that I’ve uncovered. So it’s quite fascinating creating a website that just supports your husband is something they never expect.

Ivor:                                       41:56                     It was Super Rubia and that’s the beauty of the modern, you know, Internet environment where, where people can fight back with inflammation against misinformation. So, so that’s a fantastic platform. And I guess when we release this, I put the links also. And I also think if we did, we mentioned this before, a a nice kind of a family tree going back to the 1800 stills with the key players and interconnections. Maybe that’s, that’s something to be good to work with you on that. Excellent. We’ll do that for transparency. Oh, that’s crazy. Not for going after anyone for transparency and honesty. Did it. Great. Thanks. Hey, fantastic job. Great job you guys. Thanks. Bye.




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